Episode 75 - Detroit Rock City (1999) and The Mod Squad (1999)

You gotta lose your mind in Detroit Rock City, and we're here to help! We feel uptight on a Saturday night, the radio's the only light, and we're talking the 1999 Adam Rifkin joint about four 1978 kids who just want to see Kiss play in Detroit. But that's not all! We're also talking 1999's critically-paned cinematic revival of the 60s and 70s counterculture series, The Mod Squad, which one of our hosts inexplicably, unironically, and unconditionally loves. The celebration of 1999 continues on Filmshake!

Music Heard This Episode:
"Here But I'm Gone (Part II)" -- Curtis Mayfield and Lauren Hill
"Detroit Rock City" -- Kiss
"Jailbreak" -- Thin Lizzy
"Come Sail Away" -- Styx
"The Boys Are Back in Town" -- Everclear (Thin Lizzy cover)
"Ends" -- Everlast

Intro music - "If" by Broke For Free

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Letterboxd - Nic & Jordan
The Nicsperiment

Transcript

You wanted the best, you got the best. The hottest podcast in the world. 

It's film shake. And I'm Jordan. And this is Nick. And we are the 90s Movies Podcast. This is episode 75, and we're talking about 1999 movies this year for the 25th anniversary. So today we're covering Detroit, Rock City, and the Mod Squad. The Mod Squad being our punishment movie because Nick, what happened the last time on the podcast? You want a trivia somehow? I don't know how. Actually, I forgot that I actually won. 

I was like, wait, I watched this terrible movie for nothing. I altered the questions for you a little bit, but yeah, for sure. When you were in danger of losing, I changed things up a bit. It didn't feel like a true win. 

I mean, they never do because I never truly win, of course, but yeah, maybe that's why it's completely forgot what happened. I cooked the books. It's all good. You won. You won. Yeah, sure. And since you won, I'll take the lead on talking about the Mod Squad. 

I still feel this. I did watch it. I did watch it. This isn't one of those where I lost and then didn't watch it and made you watch it. So I actually won. And now you have to talk about it. So thank you. Thank you for that privilege, I guess. 

Right. So the Mod Squad, I'm gonna do one of those shocking things that I do from time to time, Jordan. I actually really enjoyed watching the Mod Squad. I watched it twice. No. Yeah, yeah, I did. You watched this twice? I watched it twice, Jordan. 

I have good reasons why and I am a biased viewer in this case. You know, 1999 is my favorite year. That's my favorite year in cinema. This is not one of the best films of 1999. This is not a great film. Okay, at least you give it that. Right, yeah. The story is extremely generic. 

The characters are very thin. But, Jordan, for me, this is what I like to call a vibe movie. This movie is more about a vibe than it is about its story or its characters and its vibe is totally my thing. 

It's the desaturated 1999 look. Yeah, that's your deal, man. You just crush it. That's exactly it, Jordan. The cinematography here is done by Ellen Curis. That is Spike Lee's collaborator. 

She also did the cinematography for a film Jordan loves, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. This movie looks great because they did the thing where they desaturated it, but then they went in and used a lot of really high contrast colors, like a lot of red, a lot of green, some purple. The way that everything shows up, I just love when movies look like this. They look like this the most in 1999. This movie crushes that look. 

I love looking at it. I mean, you've got Claire Danes' hair and her outfits. You've got Giovanni Robisi and his lack of hair and outfits. You've got Omar Epps. 

You've got Dennis Farina. I will grant you this movie is way more mod than squad. It definitely looks good. All the people look good in it. It's got a great cast. All those actors that I just mentioned, plus Josh Brolin, you've got Michael Lerner, you've got Richard Jenkins. 

You've got this great cast of people and you've got obviously a really talented cinematographer. But man, like you said, the story is super generic. There's anti-chemistry between everybody in this movie. The script is terrible. 

The direction is all over the place. I don't really even know what the plot is. It's just really bad. And like for a crime cop movie, really boring too. It's just hard to get through, honestly. 

I disagree. The look of it could only take me so far. Well, it wasn't just the look, Jordan. The sound of this film, you have late 90s trip hop, kind of chill, hip hop soundtrack with some jazzy stuff thrown in. I mean, look, in the first 10 minutes of the movie, morphine, gosh, I love morphine, great 90s band. 

They're in this. You've got a Bjork song. You've got all this cool music in here. You have a collaboration between Curtis Mayfield and Lauren Hill. The soundtrack is great. 

Yeah, I mean, like the soundtrack. Right. So that's what I'm saying. 

It's more of a vibe thing. I love how it looks. I love how it sounds. It's not a great movie, but this is the kind of thing I could just throw on and bathe in the aesthetic experience. I don't even have to be watching it almost. It could just be there. 

Just be there in the background. Right. And this is, of course, something that happened a lot in especially 1999. 1999 was famous for having movies that were remakes of 60s and early 70s shows. 

Don't know why. I mean, we already did one of these, Dudley Do Right. And you just have a lot of looking back at the past like Blast From the Past, which we also covered. Two Brendan Fraser movies there. 

I mean, so many TV shows. I don't know why they thought it would be a good idea to do this, but they tried to remake these things into movies and try to make money. Unfortunately, this movie bombs. It didn't even make back a third of its budget in the theater. 

50 million budget only grossed $50 million. And the TV show admittedly, I've watched a lot of old TV when I was a kid. I watched Nick and Knight in the 80s when it was Dick Van Dyke in the Patty Duke show. They didn't show the Mod Squad. They showed Dragon Head and Get Smart, but not the Mod Squad. Because it's not really the greatest show. It's just kind of a show for kids. So I was really surprised in the first 10 minutes of this when I heard multiple F-bombs and there's a sexy. And I don't know why this is rated R, but it is. I guess it's part of the aesthetic here. It's 99, man. You got to appeal to that Gen X crowd. The desaturated like heroin chic crowd, you know? 

I guess so, but man, I was fine with it. I love Claire Dayans. Juvenile Rabisi gives the weirdest performance. He's so weird in this movie. I was down with everything he did. He's basically just the biggest screw up on earth. He screws up everything, even getting coffee. He's like actually sticking his thumb in the cup and then burning his finger and then spilling it. 

And just every throwaway shot. He's doing something wrong. He's so strange. 

I was into that. He had so much potential in this. I really love him as an actor. I just recently watched Suburbia from Linklater in mid-90s movie with him in it. And just with a talented director and great script, he gives that same kind of like manic, screw up, nihilistic, ranting vibe that they were kind of going for here with him to a degree. 

But I don't know. It just felt like everything had such potential in this, but it just fell short to me because I was digging some of the stuff that he was doing, but like you can only get so far with a really bad script. So some of his dialogue and all their dialogue was just like really flat. And the chemistry between the characters just like never really gelled. It just felt like nobody really cared a whole lot because they couldn't put their heart into this because again, back to what's written on the page just wasn't that inspiring, I imagine, for these actors. I think the scenes with Danes and Rabisi together, especially later in the film, are pretty fun. 

I will say I don't mind Omar Epps as an actor at all. And I should say the plot of this is just that the Mod Squad are three troubled teens who basically get one last chance from this police captain who's played by Dennis Farina, who says, Hey, look, I won't bust you this time. You won't go to prison if you be this Mod Squad police unit that can go under cover. You're like cool hip youngsters. You can go places we can't, which makes no sense. Like on a tactical, like logistical level for a police officer, just be like, yes, you untrained juvenile delinquents will make you cops now. 

Like, I don't know. They're not even really cops. They're just basically like narks, like go in and hang out in sketchy places and give details on whatever sketchy person they catch in the act of something. 

Like Omar Epps basically just like chases one guy down, get some information out of him and let him let him go. But it's like, oh, no, it's cops. There's like, no, it's just like a bunch of kids that the cops like released back into the world. 

Just kind of silly plot for sure. That's the TV show though. I mean, that's not on the show. That's the movie. That's the plot of the TV show. 

And they don't get guns either. So they're almost our norm throughout the movie. Rabisi's character, I thought had some funny lines and even his character. I like that he's just such a screw up, his rich, wealthy parents just think he's a joke. And he goes to them for help and his mom does still give him some money. But as you kind of get like a little background, even though the characters are thin here, that man, this guy is just a joke to his father and doesn't take him seriously. And that just kind of reinforces his inferiority complex. And I liked how Dane's character was like in recovery and Dennis Farina had helped her get into recovery. 

So that's one of the reasons she's doing this. And spoiler, but it happens in the first 15 minutes, unlike the TV show, his Captain Groot character dies. He gets framed and set up. The plot of this movie is something that I would have written in like a sophomore high school English class. It's just that all the cops are bad and they're doing a drug deal and Dennis Farina was onto them and he gets killed. 

And the internal affairs is looking into it. But these three teenage shares, really, they seem like they're in the early 20s. They're just totally on their own in this, which also I like that too. Again, the plot's not great. The characters aren't that well drawn, but I like how they're just like on their own and have no idea what they're doing. Even though, again, the plot is so thin. I mean, it's like the kind of movie where someone goes up to a window and all the bad guy cops are together, like repeating their plan really loudly for each other. Which actually happens in this movie like multiple times. 

Right. And Giovanna Rubisi is a tape recorder and records it. And Josh Brolin, who is like sleeping with Clare Danes, just so happens to be the pimp slash drug dealer that's in with the cops. 

Or maybe he was planted there and like get with her by the cops somehow. I don't know. It's just like, OK, this is a little too convenient or not explained. Yeah, all this is just really silly and doesn't make much sense, but OK, whatever. You know, it's based on a 60 show. 

All right, let's go with it. It's just not that entertaining to me. I forgave that. I mean, my score for this movie is only a six out of ten. It's not great. I think that's better than a lot of a lot of the reviews that this movie got at the time. 

It got like a 3% of rotten tomatoes. But I just I thought it was cool. It looked good. It sounded good. I like Clare Danes in this. 

I like Rubisi. Even Omar Epps was thinking after I watched this and I noticed someone else posted about this somewhere that if Will Smith had been cast in this instead of Omar Epps, this movie might have had like a little bit more. It might have congealed together a little better. 

Maybe there would be more charisma in the film and maybe a more energy and maybe it would have been a minor hit with him involved instead. That feels like a slide on Omar Epps, though. And Omar Epps is my boy. 

Like, I love that dude. But yeah, he doesn't have a whole lot of charisma in this. He's very just wooden. Because again, his character is super thin. 

There's nothing to really work with there. He's just kind of standing around looking at the waitresses in the creepy club that they have to go to. He does a good foot chase at one point. But other than that, he doesn't really have much to do. Yeah, and his character really his trade is just that he's paranoid and he doesn't really trust people. So that kind of puts him at odds with everyone around him. But he's really quiet about that too. And again, I'm not trying to slight him. It's just, I mean, Will Smith in the late 90s is Will Smith. I mean, he could have done this instead of Wild Wild West, which no one could have made good and maybe made this a little better. 

That's all I'm saying. Omar Epps in Wild Wild West and Will Smith in the Mod Squad. Yeah, that would have been rad. 

That would have been interesting. Just to give a shout out to not a 90s movie, but an Omar Epps movie from 2000 just watched Love and Basketball, which is really great. He's really amazing in that. 

Have you seen that movie? A long, long time ago in a basketball galaxy far, far away. I remember him being really good in that. That was a great role for him. Yeah, great role in that. Yeah, he just, just fantastic movie. Been getting into some more of his movies lately. So yeah, I just hate to see his talent wasted in this trash. Yeah, and you get Eddie Griffin in here as his buddy for a minute, but they only have like one scene together, which that even felt forced and just not funny. 

I don't know. It's just, but I think you're selling the sense of humor in this movie a little short. There is a really, really, really dark winking at how nasty Hollywood can be thing here. You get a lot of it with this gangster character who's also a music mogul where he keeps talking about his band that rocks and they rock really hard. And then whenever they land at the end of the movie, it's like, these like Hanson. 

It's basically Hanson. They're all like, we love you. Why are you leaving us and like giving him a hug and it's real gross and icky and everyone is grossed out by it. 

Yeah, that's super gross. And you see Omar Epps looking at him like, this is Michael Lerner's character. You're talking about, but yeah, it's like, what the hell? 

Like, what is this guy? This is so creepy. And that's right after he asked him to dance to a jazz remake of these are a few of my favorite things from the sound of music, which is also I thought really a really strange funny scene. 

I did laugh a decent amount. There's a funny scene where Giovanni Robisi goes to a car wash and does a lot of stupid stuff. There's a through line here where Omar Epps's car just gets more and more destroyed to the movie. I think something that this movie is missing for me is one really awesome action scene. 

There's just a few like quick action beats. I really wanted a moment, especially near the end where all three of them got an Omar Epps's beat up car and Claire Danes was in the backseat and she was like, go, go, go. And then like they chased somebody and there was like some carnage and Rex and stuff. I feel like they could have done that with a 50 mil budget. I was sad that that was missing. I'm with you there. I definitely needed more action because there's multiple stakeout scenes where they're just kind of sitting in the car or like they go to a place and then they have to wait. And then like even when you do have some of the action beats where like somebody is killed outside a trailer, it's just like poorly shot. And you don't know, it's just kind of clunky and doesn't really work that well. 

All right. So Jordan thinks this movie sucks. And a lot of people do. 

I'm very biased in that I enjoy his aesthetics. Also, when this movie again came out in 1999, my favorite year, that was the first time I went out to Southern California in the LA area. I feel like it captures the vibe of that area of that time really well. So if you're into that, it has that too. I think it's underrated. 

Jordan thinks it sucks. I don't think it delivers on an action level or a story level or a character level, but I've been collecting the official Dreamcast magazines that I missed from 1999. I almost had a complete set of those. And I got one in the mail the other day and Sega spared no expense with that magazine. They got the best graphic designers to make that magazine look awesome. It's the best 1999 aesthetic. And honestly, this movie has Sega Dreamcast magazine aesthetic. Even if you look at the orange on the poster, that's what it reminds me of. 

So biased. This is a six out of 10 for me. I can watch this a bunch of times. I could throw this on in the background while I'm doing other stuff. I liked it. I wish there was more information about the movie out there. The Blu-ray has no extras other than the trailer. 

If you Google this movie, there's like hardly any information at all because I'm sure they probably shot a lot of stuff that wasn't used. I'm sure this probably got hacked up a bit. They just wanted to bury it, man. They just wanted to get rid of this. Like the world is not even for 1999's mod squad. 

Maybe that's what makes me like it more too. Like these three characters are underdogs. You're contrarian. They're outcasts. 

And this movie is an outcast. You like it because everybody hates it. Yeah, exactly. There are other people who like it. 

I found some others who get it, Jordan. Dude, there are wardrobes in this. You're 1999 mod squad cold. The Levi's tie-in for this movie, they got their own tie-in with Levi's jeans. I'm just all about this. This transports me to my favorite gear and damn it. 

You know what? I love it for that. I don't care what anyone says. I mean, I'm with you on the vibe. I'm with you on the aesthetic for sure. I just wish the story and the writing and the directing and the acting and everything else were good. All right. 

I guess we can move on then. What score would you give this? Like one out of five? Dang, that's low, man. 

Yeah. We watched some bad movies for this podcast and you haven't given a score that low often. My feelings are a little hurt here for the mod squad. Flopped at the box office, underappreciated. My co-host hates it. I'm the only one who loves you. 

No, it's not true. That's what Jordan's trying to make me feel isolated and alone. There are other people who love the mod squad, like 10 people. My 10 people out there. 

We love 1999's the mod squad. You reach out to those 10 for support. Right. And you can reach out to me at- FilmShake Podcast at gmail.com. 

There you go. Email us there and we'll start a group together. It's a port group, just like how Clare Danes goes to AA, her character in this movie. 

We can go to a support group, the mod squad anonymous. Sitting around a circle and hold the DVD. That's right. No, there's a Blu-ray, like I said, with no extras, just the trailer. I guess it'll never get a 4K. 

Well, you know what should have a 4K if it doesn't. 1999's Detroit Rock City. I feel like time's Saturday night. 

Night or clock, the radio's the only night. I hit my stone and it pulls me through. I cut the throne, don't know what I got to. I got to hit off everybody's phone on the left knee. Get down everybody's phone on the right knee. 

Get Jordan. So this was your pick, Detroit Rock City. I had never watched this before. I remember just seeing a few little ads for it. I don't remember this being advertised that much. And it somehow only made a third of what the mod squad made at the movie theaters in 1999. Like, you know, if I could go back in time and go to the movies, I feel like I'd be sitting alone with two other people to watch the mod squad. And it still made three times as much money as Detroit Rock City. 

The Detroit Rock City only had a 17 million budget. This is kind of a little film, but apparently it's a cold hit now, especially among Kiss fans, which I mean, I feel like Kiss produced this movie, right? One of the production companies is Kiss Nation. 

Yeah, Gene Simmons is the executive producer on it. So watching it definitely feels like a Kiss commercial, where there's just so much Kiss paraphernalia crammed into this thing. But yeah, I grew up watching this, saw it either in 99 or early 2000s. Remember just really having a soft spot for it. 

Like I said, last time, couldn't have predicted if I would still like this or not. It's definitely in the 1999 crude teenage humor. I would say it's the most 1999 movie about the 70s that I can imagine. 

Just with these kind of despicable scumbag teenage characters who are at the same time likable to me at least and have their redeeming qualities. But yeah, just wanted to revisit this man because I hadn't seen in a long time. I'm really curious what you think about this and if you like this at all. Well, yeah, again, going along with something that you'd be hearing a lot throughout the rest of this year, since we covered 1999 films, that's obviously the last year of the 20th century. That whole year, culture and movies in general really reflecting back on the decades past from that century. And really the 20th century, very monumental obviously. It's the end of a millennium too, but we didn't have movies in the 1800s. We only really had them from the early 1900s going forward. So we're looking back at 50s and 60s, 70s, even 80s a little bit. 

And this is one of those movies that does that to varying effect, Jordan. You want to know how I feel about this thing. I definitely have some feelings. All right. We'll get through all of them hopefully. Hopefully we don't get in like a fist fight through our microphones. 

Right. When did you first watch this? When did this come onto your radar? Like I said, probably in the early 2000s, if not 1999. I don't think I saw it in the theater. Probably rented it, watched it with buddies at the time. 

I would have been a really young teenager. Obviously the humor then appealed to me and left its mark. And so I'm here to talk about it now. Yeah. 

So this is directed by Adam Rifkin and the basic plot synopsis. We have four young teenagers in 1978. They are in Cleveland, Ohio. We've got Edward Furlong, GeoCepti Andrews, Sam Hauntington and James DeBello. 

There you go. So that's our four young teenage lads. They are huge kiss fans, which is shown to us in the opening scene where Sam Hauntington, who plays Jam or Jeremiah, his, I love this opening scene where his, his mom, very 70s mom, very conservative, loves Jesus, has the smile. Jesus loves you bumper sticker on the back of her station wagon. But yeah, she's, she's like coming to herself, pulls out a carpenters record to play, sits down with her berry wine and then lo and behold, she doesn't realize it's kiss playing through her stereo all of a sudden blasts and she spits out her wine all over her face and it's totally freaked out. 

And then we see her rush to GeoCepti Andrews. He and the other guys are in a band together. They're in their basement of this character, Lex, played by Andrews and they're jamming out. You know, it's just raunchy, obviously, smoking weed, got like hustler magazines all over the floor, kiss paraphernalia everywhere. They're obviously just like a bunch of kind of grungy hard rock fans in a band called Mystery with the S looking like the kiss S. But yeah, then the mom like bus up on them and like makes the young boy jam, come home and clean up his act and throws away his kiss record in the garbage. But yeah, so that kind of gives you our, our introduction to these kids and the whole plot of the movie is basically them trying to go to Detroit to see kiss in concert and the different kind of hiccups and bumps along the road as they try and get there. 

Adam Rifkin, of course, directing the smash hit that FilmShake covered more than four years ago now and it wasn't a smash hit, it flopped, but it was called The Chase with Charlie Sheen and Christy Swanson, not the best movie, but you know, it does a theme that carries on through all those movies that we've covered so far that we'll talk about later. Trashy, sexy in a car. That's kind of weird. Yeah. Hey, road movie there on the road in both of these. Road movie for sure. 

I really do enjoy the beginning of this movie. You have Lyn Che playing the mom. She of course is in a lot of horror movies. She's in A Nightmare on Elm Street critters alone in the dark, but she's also in a lot of comedies, especially fairly brothers ones like Dumb and Dumber, Kingpin. You definitely will remember her from there something about Mary. She's got a special role in that movie. She's the mom. 

Yeah, she's great in this. Yeah, like how all the shots are set up in this early portion of the film because poor jam, he's got to hide his kiss record in her carpenter's sleeve so she doesn't find it, which is really dumb. These kids are all pretty dumb, but to think like, I don't want my mom to know I have a kiss record. Let me hide it in the sleeve of her favorite carpenter's album. She'll never find it there. 

Right. I like how to in his bedroom, you're mentioning a Nightmare on Elm Street or like above his bed. He has that slanted roof with the crucifix, which kind of calls back to the same kind of element in a Nightmare on Elm Street, but he has like his kiss poster. It's like a window shade that he has to hide from his mom like anytime she walks in. He goes like flip it up. 

I love that too. And I love how the record she can't turn it off. She accidentally turns the knob too hard and it breaks off and she can't get the thing open. 

She's freaking out. And I love the opening credit scene where you have her busting poor jam and breaking up the jam session with their band and she grabs the kiss record as she's dragging him out by the ear to her car and she throws it in the trash. I'm praising you, Rifkin. You did great on this opening sequence. The camera pans over to the record in the trash and then a needle comes from out of nowhere and starts playing a kiss song and you get the awesome opening credits where you just get all this footage from the 70s kind of giving you a rundown of the decade over the credits. I enjoyed that. 

So this opening sequence, I'm down. I was enjoying it, man. Yeah. So there's a lot of dumb and kind of like slapstick humor moments here that I really love. And there's a lot of moments that I'll get to this later, but parts of it feel kind of like a dream scenario or especially once you get toward the end of the movie where like there's almost like wish fulfillment or fantasies coming to life. There's cool moments in this where I'm like, oh man, this has to be a dream or like it's has to be like some sort of absurd hallucination, but no, they just go with it. 

I really kind of dig that. Early on in the movie, we have jam waking up in his bedroom. The phone's ringing, but his foot is caught in like one of those stretchy exercise thingies. I don't know what you call it, but he's trying to like reach for the phone, which is across to the room, but he's like hooked to the bed post by this exercise thing. 

And then he grabs the phone, but then like the exercise thing like pulls him back to the bed and you know, like slides down, you know, on the carpet and then like the phone receiver comes like flying and hits him in the head and like all that. I just found really humorous as the bandmates are calling him freaking out because they can't find the kiss tickets. But oh no, man, I've got him in my jacket here. But of course he can't get to him because his mom buss in his room, wants him to get dressed in his Kmart slacks and gear. And he shows up at school or, you know, like you've got his other kiss buddies who are all like Edward Furlong, who I love, Terminator 2, American History X, especially, which he was in with Giuseppe. The year before this. 

Andrews, yeah, 98. Yeah, I love his whole vibe and kind of sleazy energy in this. But yeah, he meets up with the buddies there and they're all like making fun of them because the way his mom dressed him is like so dorky. But he has to relay to them that he can't get the tickets because, you know, they have to go to his house after school, get the tickets, you know, before his mom will be out of the way. Their plan is to take the train to Detroit to go see Kiss. 

Yes. And I really, really again, enjoy the 70s vibe here, the late 70s vibe. I feel like Rifkin does a great job of just creating this all American late 70s feeling. He makes the era seem like a great time to be a teenager. And I wanted to be there, frankly. I enjoyed the stupid exaggerations at the school, even where everyone is a little off. There's all kinds of weird stuff going on. Right. 

Right. A lot of dumb juvenile humor. There's a scene where they're all hiding in the bathroom there and they end up in the girl's bathroom and they end up in the stall next to this girl that one of them has had a crush on for a long time. Since second grade. 

Right. Since second grade, she starts to pee and then she starts farting. It's so juvenile and dumb. 

Could it get any dumber? Well, yeah, it could if they're all standing on the same toilet and it suddenly breaks and they knock the wall down on top of her and all the, all the stalls fall like dominoes. Everything goes chaos and they run away. Again, it's kind of dreamlike and it's really stupid, but I enjoyed it. That was fun. 

I love how Lex goes, I've never heard a girl blow ass before. And that's when the toilet just disintegrates under their feet. They fall over and then the stall falls forward. So they're all exposed. The girls still sitting on the toilet all exposed. 

And then the stall doors, like you said, are falling like dominoes. And she's just screaming the whole time. I love how all the boys run away and then Lex is just kind of standing there, like shrugging like, I'm sorry. It's just out of that moment really made me laugh out loud like hard. 

I love that. And like you said, it's really juvenile and stupid, but this movie knows what it is. It's it knows. I love that it knows that it's juvenile and stupid. And it's just going to lean into that. And there's like some unexpected turns that it takes with that kind of humor that I really found enjoyable. 

Yeah, you can tell this is Rifkin's vibe and this is his era. So he's able to probably best perform and be the best filmmaker he can when he's doing this kind of stuff. And I like these actors for the most part. I mean, Giuseppe Andrews, I have a soft spot for from Independence Day, where he's the sibling of our boy, James DeVol from LLC, punk, Randy Quaid has all the quirky as kids in that movie. He did a bunch of micro budget movies. He's a filmmaker here. Giuseppe Andrews, I'm speaking of. He was no one knows where he is. 

He hasn't been seen in years, but I watched his directorial debut, which was produced by Rifkin. It's called Touch Me in the Morning. And it's a it's a trauma film, right? It's a trauma movie. 

I read your review and letterbox. Sounds pretty messed up. It's extremely messed up. It's like the weirdest mix of sweetness, mostly because Giuseppe Andrews has this weird, sweet innocence about him and just total grotesquery, total debauchery. I feel like I may be scarred from life from watching it, but at the same time, there's just something about it. It takes place in a trailer park, which Giuseppe Andrews is from and lived in a trailer park. 

So there's something really middle America about that movie. I really enjoyed a lot that I feel like he captured well. But all that to say, I like Giuseppe Andrews in this too. I think he's probably my favorite out of these four. 

Though Edward Furlong, I mean, again, yeah, I'm with you. Love that guy. He kind of had a rough career path after this, mainly due to some drug issues. But I think he's been sober for five or six years. 

He seems like he's doing well, going to conventions and stuff. And he just sleazes it up in this movie, but he's not the sleazy one. The sleazy one is definitely James DeBello as the lead guitar player Trip. 

Who's just like the biggest dumbest meathead perv guy. I like that all these guys, you really have to think about what instrument they play because Edward Furlong is the front man of the band. He's the main singer. He's the Gene Simmons guy. And then Jam is the drummer, which sometimes the drummer is the dumb meathead guy. But hey, you know what? I play drums and bass, so I'm going to have a soft spot for all those people. I play bass the most. So maybe that's why I like Giuseppe Andrews the best. 

Yeah. He's this kind of more soft spoken nicer guy, but not as nice as Sam Huntington, who I think has been so traumatized by his mom, he doesn't want to inflict any trauma on anyone else. He's probably the sweetheart of the bunch. 

He's the sweetheart for sure. But you got a great crew there. These four guys have good chemistry together. And you know, when they're on screen together, I'm loving this movie. Yeah, for sure. I think they do have amazing chemistry. 

I'm with you. I like the lived in, very realistic 70s vibe. Well, I'd say realistic and lived in. But like you said, there's a lot of exaggeration and stereotype in there. But I think that works with the absurd humor of the movie. Yeah, I'm with you. 

I want to be there like with these kids like hanging out in that school, like ditching class and trying to get to the Kiss concert. I was digging the vibe. I was digging the chemistry. 

So yeah, all this stuff is working for me. And unfortunately, the Kiss tickets were left in a jacket and jam's closet. His mom finds it. 

And again, this is like a really dumb over the top scene, but I did enjoy it. He's gets called into the office by name. Everyone is laughing hysterically at him. And then his mom grabs the microphone from the principal and she starts yelling at him. Over the whole school intercom, even the teacher is laughing so hard. She's crying. It's so stupid, but it was really funny. 

You just get totally humiliated. And I like that he's got the Melanie Linsky girl in class with him. Melanie Linsky, of course, an actress that I'm terrified by because she was in the shield a few years after this and she played a killer along with her boyfriend. She was just the sickest, most terrifying character. And she usually doesn't play characters like that, but she was so convincing. I'm scared of her and everything. Even in this where she's just like a sweet little innocent girl who has a crush on jam. I don't know. 

I don't trust her, man. But they're in class together. They have like sort of like a meat, cute thing where they've been in school this whole time, but they accidentally bump heads together when they're reaching out to grab a pencil. So you get a little something there right before he gets humiliated. 

Yeah, right before he gets humiliated. And her in this like at this young age, man, it was kind of uncanny how much she looks like Karris at that age. Just looking at pictures of my wife from from way back, I'm just like, oh my gosh, like she looks so much like Karris. It was kind of weird. 

That's strange. I dig their whole kind of awkward romance here and bumping the heads and she throws the pencil and pokes them in the eye. And then, yeah, the very over the top exaggerated mom on the school intercom. It's really fun. You get cutaways to all the boys in their different classes. I love the cutaway to Edward Furlong. He's in chemistry class or something. 

He's got like the goggles on that make his eyes look really crazy and huge. Yes. And everyone is laughing but them because they know what this means. She's about to burn these tickets and that's what she does. She burns the tickets right in front of him. 

She's just the worst in this movie, man. And, you know, I can relate to poor jam here because I mean, I love my mom and we've reconciled and made amends. But my mom did stuff like this to me. She didn't come to the school and yell over the intercom. 

But she did at one point throw away all my toys because of that stupid terror in the toy box book and took away other things like that. And I was like, damn it, leave jam alone. He's just trying to be a teenager and enjoy his life. Right. Hey, man, lay off your mother's man. Not for her. 

We wouldn't have smoked that Panama Red last night. No, I'm with you. I loved how just like ridiculous over the top, like religious fanatics, she was in this, but at the same time was a freaking chain smoker. Like she was pulling out a cigarette every second, like lighting up. And then like at one point she's in the car of the ashtray on the dash and it's just like filled with cigarettes. But yeah, in this she's smoking a cigarette in the school and then lights up the tickets and throws them, I guess, like an ashtray or something. I'm looking at all the other boys are like peeking around the corner watching this. I'm like, why don't you run up and grab the tickets before they burn? Like they're all scared of her. They're all all just paralyzed in fear by this woman. 

She has like so so much power over jam, especially in this, which is like makes you feel for him and like really frustrated, like and then very cathartic when he tells her off in a very teenage way. Not so much later in the movie, though, because in the dream logic of this film, he immediately gets sent off to like a boarding Catholic school. It called a bail of tears. Right. Like that very day. 

It's like that very day, that very hour. He's just, yeah, carted away. Right. 

And this is where we have to get more tickets. So James DeBello, you know, I want to call the characters by their actor name and their real name. His name is Tripp James DeBello, the meathead guy. Yeah, in my notes, I had everybody as their character name except for for long because, you know, for long is the most notable one to me. But everybody else was Tripp and Jam and Lex, which is funny because he's Hawk, right? He has the coolest name. Yeah, he has the coolest name. 

So they went for tickets through a radio contest and that the trip is back on. But now they have to rescue Jam from Catholic school and from the priest who's holding him captive, who was played by Joe Flaherty, famous for being a parent on freaks and geeks, famous for being the heckler in Happy Gilmore. Famous for his work on SCTV. This guy's been in all kinds of stuff. Plays father McNulty. Right. 

And he's he's a really wacky priest in this movie. For sure. Yeah. Well, a wacky priest because he's on shrooms at one point. Well, before he even gets on the shrooms, there's also a through line here that kind of made me wonder if Jam's mom is getting it on with all the priests. She has like, yeah, she has like a weird sexual thing with these priests. 

So I don't know. She's always come into the room with them afterward, where it's like, wait, where were they just now before she's introducing them to Jam? That's a little weird. But yeah, he orders a pizza from Pizza Pig, which is, I don't know, just like a great little touch where the pizza person shows up with like the little pig hat and the delivery van. 

So Edward Furlong is the idea. We're going to deliver the pizza ourselves, but we get the hint from him where he tells Jam as they're walking in the room. If he offers you a slice, do not eat any of it, because we soon realize that it's laced with shrooms, which everybody trip has, because apparently his mom conceived him while he was on shrooms. So that might explain a lot about his character. And I guess he just happens to have shrooms on him at the time. Priest gets really high and starts just freaking out and talking about like he's trying to explain the parable of the prodigal son. And he's like, that's a freaking riot or a freaking barrel of monkeys. 

It's just like just kind of goes out of his head. I love how the nun walks in and he's like, Satan, Santa, Santa, they're the same people. And like the nun has like the really over the top habit with like the pointy ends on it. And he's like, I don't know, he seems to make some sort of gesture at that. It reminds me very much of the trippin on acid, SLC punk, the devil's in the house scene with Sean the beggar. 

Yes, very much like that, which we've been having this discussion. I've been trying to figure this out. For some reason, 1998 gets the credit for SLC punk, which is a movie that we both enjoy a lot. 

I'm glad we're bringing this up here. It was released in 1999. Why doesn't 99 get the credit? Apparently there was one showing in Germany that gets credited for 1998, but I can't find where the showing was or when during 1998 it was. I think it's fake. I think it should be categorized as a 99 movie. I don't know why, but later in my notes, speaking of SLC punk, talking about the tone and I have it's obviously ridiculous, anti religious, pro teenage rebellion, tongue in cheek, because it knows how stupid it is. I mean, all that could really describe SLC punk, too. But then I have the quote from Steve Oh and SLC punk, where he goes, I mean, your movement of the people by the people for the people got you nothing. You just hide behind some lost sense of drugs, sex, rock and roll. 

Oh, come by. What he's talking to his parents, but I don't know. It just has that same kind of energy to it, I suppose. Yeah, sort of. Sort of. I see you have some mixed mixed feelings on this already. 

You're hinting at. We rescue jam. We're in the car. We're driving off. So far, I've really enjoyed this movie a lot, even though it's real stupid. 

It's real dumb, but I've enjoyed it a good bit. A lot of good momentum there. And then we have this run in with this car of disco bros and their two girlfriends. The Stella's and the Guido's. 

Yeah, which Guido's a derogatory term for Italians. Jerks. Yeah. You could at least say Degos. Like my dad always called my mom. who's a Sicilian, God bless her soul. 

Talking about my mom a lot tonight. This was their error, I guess. It wasn't really their error. My parents are older than this. They were having me by this point. Yeah, I do enjoy this scene a lot where they're on the highway. They're in the car. They're just driving hanging out as these dudes. Trip has got this pizza that's just kind of falling all over the place in the car. And it's Lex's mom's car. 

Because now they had to basically steal her car. She's out of town for some convention. She's a gynecologist. So there's these pointed jokes about her being a lesbian because she's a female gynecologist, of course. Because it's 99. 

Why not? And I was like, get that out of the car, man. The pizza's falling everywhere. 

You're going to smear the interior. So he throws it out of the car and the pizza lands on the disco guy's car right behind him, which they basically chase these kids down, make them pull over on the side of the road. And then you've got a great scene where Edward Furlong Kenny, the main disco jerk, is just smashing his head into the pizza on his windshield. He's getting all the pizza stuck in his hair. And I don't know, it's just like this great moment that feels very true to life in a way or just very stereotypical at the same time. 

I don't know how you can really conflate the two. True to life and stereotypical? I don't know, maybe stereotypes there for a reason. But I don't know, it just feels very teenage, just relatable. Or it's like, oh, this jerk guy's smashing your head in this pizza. 

But then comes in the fantasy, wish fulfillment moment where Edward Furlong turns around, knees the dude in the nuts, whips out a cigarette, looking cool. Then all the kids come together as this band where they take off their belt buckles and get out their drumsticks and their chain wallet. And they're going to beat up the other probably what, 30-year-old disco guy. Paint their faces like kiss because the disco guys are making fun of kiss and throw the eight track in the road. 

And it gets run over. And they're calling them a fag band and all this stuff. So yeah, very cathartic moment for kiss fans, for the teenagers there, for the outcasts. 

Or it's like, yeah, we can take down these jerks. And they end up getting one of the girls in the car with them, one of the Stellas. I loved all that stuff. 

I thought it was really enjoyable. Tonight there's gonna be a jailbreak somewhere in this town. See me and the boys, we don't like it. So we're getting up and going down. 

Hot load, looking right to left. If you see us coming, I think it's best. We'll move away, do you hear what I say from under my breath. Tonight there's gonna be a jailbreak somewhere in this town. 

Tonight there's gonna be a jailbreak somewhere to be around. Yeah, I love especially Giuseppe Andrews rapping his big, bulky, kiss-built buckle around his brass knuckles. That was a fun visual. And the two girls, the one that ends up sticking with them, of course, is Natasha Leon, who has just had it with the two meathead dudes she's with, and ends up kind of bonding with our idiot crew, mainly because she gets contact high when they're hot boxing in the car. 

Right, that car is so full of smoke by that point. But my girl, Emmanuel Cherokee, who teamed up later on with Edward Furlong in one of the worst movies ever made, The Crow Wicked Prayer, the fourth Crow movie from 2004. Tell The Crow Wicked Prayer just keeps coming up in this five-day. It's so bad. Can't escape it. Right, you should listen to your next favorite movie podcast. 

I did an episode solely dedicated to that film with him, and it's something, it's something, that episode that I did with him about that movie. Emmanuel Cherokee, looking great in this, I was digging her look, man. I was sad she was only in this for like 90 seconds, Max. I was kind of hoping that she would go with them too, but she doesn't. 

Natasha Leon does, and they're driving in to Detroit. They finally get there from Cleveland. It's this big, victorious moment where it's like, all right, we made it. 

All these kids fans are making rock signs with their fists at them. I've been with the movie so far. And then kind of metaphorically, the car stops, and the movie just dies for me here. 

It just dies for me, Jordan. I'm guessing mostly it's because how they split up and you go on like these different separate adventures maybe you're not with it to that point, but I really do dig the radio station scene where they realize Tripp hung up before giving his information to the radio so they don't actually win the tickets. And there's this great scene in the elevator where they're all dejected and just standing quiet and depressed, and the Pina Colada song starts playing like it's elevator music. And then Edward Furlong just all of a sudden attacks Tripp and like wrestles him to the ground and like they get into a fight right there. 

Well, that was really great. Yeah, yeah, that was a bummer. And then they all split up and they have adventures that I didn't really find very exciting or involving. My interest really started to slip away from the movie, man. I just didn't really care about any of the little adventures they went on, because it still has that really dumb, kind of dreamlike energy with everything happening being kind of hyper real and really stupid. But the movie had momentum for me and I was enjoying the setting. 

And again, I'm gonna go back to vibe. I was vibing with the movie, like I was vibing with Maud Squad with the aesthetics and the music and everything. And I love these four characters together as a unit. I think they're interesting. But when they split up, to me, they're kind of boring. I don't know when their adventures were kind of boring, more than kind of boring. I was really bored. I watched it twice. 

The second time I was hoping like, okay, I know this is coming now. This isn't a fun movie that's fast paced where these four kids are trying to get to Detroit. It's not that anymore. 

They're in Detroit and they're just separated. And it's not what I signed up for. And I just don't find it interesting at all, man. I did not dig this 40 minute. It's like 40 minutes before this and then 40 minutes of this and then about 15 minutes after this. And this 40 minutes just drag for me, man, was not it. 

Oh man, I did not feel that. I can see how you could feel that just the separation, the going into different side quests and everything in it, not necessarily moving the plot forward in a traditional way. But I don't know, I dig all these characters. I dig the little different side adventures. I didn't really have a problem with any of this. 

I was into it. I don't know, like, I guess with that kind of stuff, you always have the trouble of some adventures that are gonna be more interesting than others. But I don't know, I never really felt that here where you've got Jam, he gets caught by his mom. She's at the anti-kiss rally with all the other mothers and throws them into a church where he's gotta go in a confessional. You got him meeting up with Beth, his romantic interest from school who just happens to be there. And then they're doing it in the confessional. Got the creepy priest who's only interested in hearing about the sexual details of his confessional. You've got Lex evading the security guards and he's backstage trying to get away from these guys. 

You got Furlong in the strip tee. So he's basically trying to buy a ticket off a scalper. Doesn't have the money. 

So he's gotta try and go win a contest at this strip bar for old ladies, basically. He goes in there, tell me you didn't laugh at him throwing up on the stage. That was a highlight. All four of their stories had a highlight moment where I was into it. 

And for me, his has too. It's where he throws up and then something that happens in the car a few minutes after that. So I did enjoy just him throwing up. But man, him in the bar, it's like nothing's happening. I don't know, man, I wasn't into it. 

Okay, okay. That was definitely a highlight where like before he gets up to strip, he just barfs like a ridiculous amount into this pitcher and all the ladies are watching like just completely grossed out, then he continues to do his strip tees, which I was just expecting it to end right there. Like he barfs and then, you know, that's it. But then he gets up and he does his little strip tees and then they get into it. But then he falls off the stage. 

So I don't know. I enjoyed all that stuff. I thought that was pretty wacky fun. I did like that he loses what he should lose. 

It would be even dumber than any of the other dumb things that have happened in the movie if he had won. And I guess this is really dumb too, but Gene Simmons, of course, the front man of kiss, his wife in real life, Shannon Tweed, which if you went through puberty in the 90s, you know who Shannon Tweed is. She was in Playboy a lot. She did a lot of erotica. She is just a woman sitting in the back of the bar. For some reason, it's really into Edward Furlong. 

So much that I think really living a lot of teenage boys fantasies in the 90s, she not only wants to have sex with him, she wants to pay him to have sex with him. Right. Right. He basically becomes a jiggalo. You know, you've got the scene in the car with them where you have basically his premature ejaculation and then him saying, well, now you've seen both me and my dick throw off tonight. Yeah, that was the part where I laughed again. It was funny. But then I was like, all right, well, now your drawers are full of jizz. Are you just going to take those off in the car and go commando the rest of the movie? Yeah, there's a lot of kinds of things I think about, Jordan. 

You're thinking about the logistics, yeah, the logistics of the jazz drawers. And then they do do it off screen after that. So he does have some success afterward. 

Right. She seems happy with the experience. And then she says, I don't want the money. 

It would devalue the experience. She's like, no, no, no, you're a sweet kid. I know you wanted to do something with the money. I'll give it to you anyway. Just think about it as not for the sex. It's just because I want to give it to you. 

Just want to help you out, kid. So damn dumb. It's damn dumb, but this whole movie is damn dumb like that. And like we said, all of this is basically wish fulfillment because they all end up with somebody or become a hero or do something grand in these little side adventures, which to me makes it enjoyable, makes it pay off even in a ridiculous dumb way. 

Well, for me, it's like a neglect of payoff because this is the middle act of the movie. So you never see Shannon Tweed again after the car. She's gone. She does not come back in the movie. You have Jams little adventure in the confession booth of Melanie Linsky. She drives off with her family to move to another town. She's out of the movie. That's over with. You got Trip in the convenience store. You got Giuseppe Andrews with Natasha Leon where she is passed out from the weed and the car gets stolen. 

I did like them. I borrowed from the Sopranos, which premiered in 1999 who played Bobby Bacala. He's one of the guys who's cutting the car up. Giuseppe Andrews brings a gang of dogs and rescues Natasha Leon and they kiss, but then she's out of the movie and she doesn't come back. And then yes, Trip, James Cibelo, he gets in this weird fight with this family that has this little annoying boy and this really big older brother named Chongo where he ends up trying to rob them and then they threaten to beat him up because he doesn't realize Chongo is part of the family. He just thinks he can steal from this little kid because Trip's kind of a dick. And the little kid's like, oh, please don't hurt me. 

I'm so scared of you, but you might be even more scared of my eight foot tall brother, Chongo, and then Chongo threatens him. So then Trip thinks, oh, I guess I'm gonna have to rob the store. You do get a amusing moment where the floating heads of all his friends are like, bro, you really gonna rob the store? 

But of course, before he can rob the store, someone else robs the store. Like you said, he's kind of a dick. He's really a dumb meathead guy. 

Like you said, I like how as he walks by the scalper on the street, he's like, oh no, I'm gonna get my kiss ticket. I'm gonna beat up some little poor defenseless kid. And that's his whole plan. We should just go beat this shit out of some poor kid. So yeah, that backfires onto him, rightfully so. But as he's walking into the convenience store, the smiley mart, he steals the stretch arm strong from two kids outside because he's like, give me your kiss tickets, kids. 

And they're like, kiss sucks. So he steals their stretch arm strong. But yeah, and then he's like gonna pretend like it's a gun in his pocket. I guess in the end that helps him out because he defeats the other robber with the stretch arm strong somehow. They both start pulling on it and then he lets go and it slaps that guy in the face and he falls over and is knocked out for some reason. 

And then the cashier girl is all like. Thank you. Thank you. Who are you? 

They call me Dr. Love. I am sailing away. Set an open course for the virgin sea. Cause I'm going to be free. Free to face the life that's ahead of me. 

All this was ridiculous wish fulfillment for sure. Yes. And that girl after the cop's talk to her and she says, yay, we had to give them a reward from the cash register. 

It's a policy for stopping a robbery. She's out of the movie too. So I want all these women to come back somehow. Not no one comes back. 

And all of this ends up being kind of pointless because none of them really succeed other than a couple of them get laid and they get some cash. Well, you have Tripp in the alleyway afterward after he gets the money. He's basically robbed and mugged by the little kid in Chango. 

They take his wallet, take the money and then like hell when Chango punches him, he flies back like 10 feet and hits the brick wall behind him. And apparently, you know, they had to like use wires and like a rubber wall to do all that. Which I just liked that they took the time to make that gag even funnier in that way. 

Just like this over the top, him flying and hitting the wall. And I like that they bring back the little kids in the alleyway because he's sitting there all dejected and he's like, well, at least I got you stretch. And then the little kids that he stole it from and like run around the corner and take it from him. That part reminded me of you. And then they throw something at him. I don't know why that just reminded me of you. Yeah, they throw like a Twinkie at him or something. 

Right. I do like how the four guys just all walk into the alley and see each other at the same time. They're all making the same face like I didn't get the tickets. 

And then I did enjoy it. How they come up with the idea, what if we just beat the crap out of each other? So it looks like we're mugged and then go to the show and say that we were robbed of our tickets. It'll take sympathy on us and give us the tickets, which is so stupid, but I enjoyed watching just beat the crap out of each other and there's fake blood everywhere. That was pretty awesome. Right. 

I was not expecting watching this. They're basically, I think it's Tripp who has the idea. It's like, what if we just beat the shit out of each other? And Edward Furlong's like, okay, why not? And then they do it. 

And I'm like, wait, really? This is so stupid. Like this is never gonna work. But then it actually works because they see Chongo and his friends and they get the tickets because Tripp's wallet is with Chongo and they convince the ticket takers to throw them out and let the boys in. It was like, oh, that's actually perfect. 

Like that worked so well. They finally, finally get into the concert. You got slow-mo shot of the ticket taker, kind of letting them in, like opening his arm, them walking in and slow-mo, like just kind of freaking out. We're finally here. 

We finally got in. And then, all this build up to the Kiss concert, I thought there's a lot of great excitement in the concert scene, doesn't disappoint for me at least. Even though we're basically just watching these elderly Kiss members try and relive their glory days, they've got the old same like spandex suits on, but you can tell they're a little out of shape or a little bigger in the torso and everything. But this whole thing, like I said, it just feels like a big commercial for Kiss, executive produced by Gene Simmons. 

But, you know, what the hell? It's really fun. I love how you have like the inside of the mouth of Gene Simmons shot where it's like the tongue, basically like tongue cam of him like sticking out his tongue wiggling in at the crowd. 

I thought that was really creative and fun. But yeah, you've got this one song scene and then basically that's the end of the movie. I'm kind of with you there where I would want a little bit more falling action, a little bit more resolution, maybe bring back some of these characters after the concert. I was honestly a little shocked that it ended right there. Like, you know, they get in, they watch the concert and then that's it. It just, you know, cut to black. 

That's in the movie. I had a lot of fun. I'm glad that you dug some of it. I did like the show at the end. 

It is tough. There's so much momentum of them playing the title of the movie song, playing Detroit Rock City and them being so into it and catching the drumstick and all the pyrotechnics going off where it would feel like a letdown if you had a bunch of scenes after this. It kind of makes sense for the end of the film. But at the same time with everything so unresolved at this being a movie and not just a kiss commercial, even though I guess it is a kiss commercial, it's like one of the extras on like a kissology volume three DVD set. Right, right. 

I would have rathered some more movie like stuff after the concert film at the end. So yeah. No, you're right. I mean, it does feel right to end it there on that momentum, like that payoff. And it feels very in the spirit of the movie. Like the movie itself feels like it has the point of view of a teenager, you know, not even just with the crude humor, but jam telling off his overbearing religious mom and it just kind of ending there. There's no like resolution between them or them coming to understand each other. 

It's just like screw you, mom. And then he walks off and then they finally get to the concert and they watch it and they're elated. And it's again, just that teenage boy fantasy fulfilled. And that's the movie it ends. And so it feels kind of true to the movie to end it there. 

But yeah, at the same time I'm kind of with you. I wanted a little bit more resolution. And honestly, I just kind of wanted to hang out with these characters some more and be in that world. I was down for some more of it afterwards, you know. 

Well, that's another issue there. I enjoyed the first 40 minutes of them being together and then you split them up for such a long time. I mean, really more than half the movie. It's like you finally got them back together and then the movie's over. 

Yeah, I feel you on that for sure. Well, I guess let me praise one other aspect of this movie. This is an important thing to praise. So I buy the soundtracks for all the movies we cover. I collect them, I have shoeboxes full of CD soundtracks, and I digitize them all. And I actually listen to them frequently. This soundtrack is phenomenal. The soundtrack for the Mod Squad too, really, really good. 

I mean, I've talked about that already. I like both these soundtracks, but this Detroit Rock City soundtrack, really phenomenal. One of the best aspects, if not the best aspect of the film, you get a lot of really good 70s rock music. 

But the soundtrack is just really well thought out, really well sequenced. It kicks off with your boys in Everclear, a band George got a real soft spot for. They cover Thin Lizzie's, The Boys Are Back in Town, and Thin Lizzie, a 70s Irish rock band, I really dig. I'm thinking, oh man, what about Thin Lizzie? Are they gonna show up on here? 

Well, they do. You got Jailbreak by Thin Lizzie later on. It's great. Oh yeah, and they play that where they're busting them out of St. Bernard. So yeah, that was a great needle drop in the movie itself. 

Right, yeah, this movie's full of a lot of good needle drops. I mean, it's 1999, so you got Highway to Hell, ACDC, but it's covered by Marilyn Manson. Yeah, that's in the credits of the movie, but apparently I think that got like a razzie for worse cover in a movie on a soundtrack or something like that. To me, I'm not a big Marilyn Manson fan, but yeah, it's not a great cover. I love his cover of the Eurythmics. Enjoy that. Don't enjoy this Highway to Hell cover as much. 

Maybe because that's already a hard rock song, so he kind of makes it lame versus the Eurythmics song is just a pop song, which also a good song, I think, but he adds something to that one. Also, there's a transition that's like top tier. I mean, you and I have both had stenses, radio DJs. I really love trying to make really cool transitions from song to song. There's a cover of T-Rex on this, 20th Century Boy, by Drain STH, which it's like this weird, creepy industrial version of the song that kind of makes me feel uneasy, and it ends really weird. And right when it ends, they drop Detroit Rock City, and when that bass, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da hits right after that, it just feels like you're coming home to Detroit. 

Like, it's just a beautiful transition. So I love this soundtrack. I think it's the best aspect of this movie, because this movie, Jordan, don't get mad at me, friend. I think this and the Mod Squad are both vibe movies. This is a dumb movie. You have to spin your disbelief while you're watching it, and you know what, I was down with that vibe for those first 40 minutes. 

It felt like I was in the late 70s. I loved it. It's autumnal too, because it does take place in the fall. So when they're driving, all the trees, leaves are changing, and they're blowing, leaves that have fallen around with the cars blowing all around in the frame. So I'm into those first 40 minutes, but then the vibe, for me, just gets lost when they get to Detroit, which isn't even Detroit. They filmed in Toronto, so it's generic Canada street, and I'm out of the vibe. I never lost the vibe in the Mod Squad, Jordan. I think they're both equally as dumb, and I dig the vibe from the first 40 minutes of this just about as much as I dig that Mod Squad vibe, but then I lost the vibe in this, and I'm thinking with both of these. You lost the vibe. 

I'm in 1999. I love this vibe. It's a throwback vibe to earlier in the century for both movies, but then I lost the vibe in Detroit Rock City, and it knocked the score down, and I wanted it to get back there, and after the concert, I was like, I'm kinda on a high for this one part, but I need this to wrap. 

Oh, the movie's over. Five out of 10, damn it. Five out of 10. One point lower than the Mod Squad, Jordan. 

You're giving Mod Squad a higher score than this. Oh my gosh, dude. I am. I can't believe it. I'm sorry. I wash it both twice because I wanted to give this a higher score. 

How many more times are we gonna say vibe as well? No, man, this, I've made my statement about how I would like more of a resolution, but I had a whole hell of a lot of fun watching this movie. I found it really funny. It really held up with the stupid humor. 

Obviously would definitely turn some heads nowadays with some of the crudeness, some of the, yeah, some of the humor is just very off-color, so I can't imagine this being made today, but for what it is, for how stupid it is, how Adam Rifkin it is, I really enjoyed it. Had a whole lot of fun. I just really felt really energetic after watching this. I was with this, I wanted to be with those characters even more, I would have been down for another hour or two just hanging out with these kids. Just really enjoyed it. So despite all its stupidity and some of its flaws, I gotta give this a four out of five, man. It's really enjoyable. 

Dang. Glad I went back to this. My main hope, especially the second time I was watching it where I was hoping that I would like it more and I still, I wasn't there, I was like, man, I know Jordan loved this movie. I hope he's still enjoying it. I hope he's liking this a lot more than me. Eight out of 10. 

I mean, that feels crazy for Detroit Rock City, but you know what, I'm glad you gave it that, Jordan. Good for you. There you go. Yeah, and to bring back our, I'm not gonna have any philosophical rant here, but I always have to ask about what was the philosophy of this movie, what can we talk about in that regard, but determination, damn it. They were some determined kids. They were gonna go to this Kiss concert or bust, so determination. That's right, nothing was gonna stop him. 

Nothing was gonna get in their way. All right, so movie connection, what do you got for us? Well, since I liked the mod squad a tiny bit more, I connected mod squad to payback, and really you could connect both movies in this fashion. They're both a throwback, right? But the mod squad that came on in the late 60s and early 70s, that's payback's vibe. 

Payback's more than a vibe movie. It actually has a good plot. It's got some good characters. It has a little silliness, but overall, it's got a good plot and good characters. 

It's more of a real movie to me than these two movies. And action beats, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And action beats, right? So you have that late 60s, early 70s vibe, like payback in the mod squad, and Jordan, and the cops are also crooked in the mod squad, just like they are in payback. 

And at the end of the movie, they're busted by internal affairs after the protagonist sets them up. Both movies, Jordan. And got the desaturated look like we talked about. 

They're both desaturated, yep. But 1999. Right, 1999, but where payback goes with that blue filter feel, mod squad goes for like a little more of a washed out, but like high contrast color feel. There's a part in the mod squad where they're at the beach, and the sun is in the top left part of the frame, and the ocean is about halfway up on the frame, and it's so desaturated that the sun is washed out, and its reflection is washed out. 

So the reflection and the top half of the frame are just white. It's so gnarly and rad looking, man. Damn it, I don't wanna hear you talk about mod squad anymore. I'm gonna bring it up in every episode for the rest of the year. I just wanna talk about Detroit Rock City, and as almost as much as I liked watching Detroit Rock City, I also really enjoyed stumbling upon an old Angel Fire webpage that's still active, that's all about, well, it's not all about Detroit Rock City, but it's somebody created this Angel Fire webpage in 99, and they have a section of the webpage dedicated to Giuseppe Andrews. So you've got a bunch of like old scandin' photos from the movie, and like a biography, and a filmography for Andrews, and I actually found a 50 question list of trivia, questions on this Angel Fire webpage. So it took some of my trivia questions, just kind of in honor of this very antiquated time capsule of a webpage, and put it into my trivia battle questions here for you tonight. So are you ready for the trivia battle? Hold it! 

Pop quiz, hot shot! I guess. So I'm doing a brave thing here, where I'm gonna actually ask you questions about the movie you just watched twice. So I'm pretty confident that I'm gonna lose, but again, I had to pay tribute to the Angel Fire. 

Man, I'm a little scared, because what if it was when I was zoning out in the middle part? I don't know, man. Yeah, I mean, I'll look for those in here, hold on. 

All right. Angel Fire was rad. I had a GeoCity site back in 1999, but I think it was pretty much just pictures of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anacorn Okova. I don't know why I had both of them on there. It was probably weird, and that was pretty much it. Maybe I had a picture of Tony Soprano on there too, which was like, hey, I like these three things. I had a weird Angel Fire website, or it might've been some other offshoot of Angel Fire that was like smashing pumpkins vibe, called like Swirled and Bedazzled. And it was like where I posted my really bad lyrics and poetry for my middle school friends. And I remember posting one for a girl that I dated there that like she made some sort of comment in my guest book about that I interpreted her thinking the song was about her, but it wasn't. 

So then she called me vain for thinking that I thought she thought I wrote a song about it. I don't know why I remember this from more than 20 years ago, but yeah, that's the memory I have associated with those late 90s, early 2000s, really old websites. Dude, speaking of smashing pumpkins, we forgot to say this, Giuseppe Andrews is in the video for 1979. 1979, yeah. He's the kid driving the car, and then Corgan brought him back for the perfect video a few years later where he's older. 

That video's a lot more depressing than the 1979 video. Oh, nice, I didn't realize that, but yeah, that is cool. I dig the connection there. But yeah, it's just a nice little gem on the internet. If you could go searching for Detroit Rock City trivia, you might stumble upon this old Andrew Fire website. So I dig that that stuff is still alive and out there on the net. That's pretty cool. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe this. 

My questions are based on the Mod Squad. The TV show or the movie. So we didn't mention this. The cricket cops are played by some pretty big actors, or at least actors that played cops a lot. Richard Jenkins, yeah. Right, you got Steve Harris in there, but yes, Richard Jenkins. All my questions are based on Richard Jenkins, because Jordan, he was in five films in 1999. 

So I have a question from each film that Richard Jenkins was in in 1999, including the Mod Squad. I feel like that dude's been in five movies like every year of his life. He's in so many freaking movies. 

His ultrasound was in a movie when he was his mother's womb. Five movies, yeah. Five of them. All right, I'll go first. 

I'll ask the easiest one first. 1999's Harrison Ford drama, Random Hearts, was directed by A. Ridley Scott, B. Ivan Reitman, C. Sidney Pollock, or D. James L. Brooks. Sidney Pollock, thank you Pure Cinema Podcast. 

I knew you listened to that, so I knew you would get this one right. I wanted you to start off well. Thank you, sir. You're welcome, which by the way, I picked the next movie and the punishment for the next movie, so if I lose, I'll be punishing myself. 

Okay. All right, so at the beginning of the movie, we see Mrs. Bruce descend the stairs, anticipating relaxing in her recliner while listening to the Carpenters. Which Carpenter song was she softly singing? Was it Close to You? 

We've Only Just Begun? Rainy Days and Mondays? Or On Top of the World? I don't know, B. Which one was that? I don't know, whatever B was. Oh, damn it, you just guessed right. We've Only Just Begun. 

Nice. Which is clever, because the movie is Only Just Begun at that point. Oh, that is clever, Jordan. 

The beginning is the most clever part of the film. Man, all the Kiss fans who are gonna stumble upon our episode while thinking, man, there needs to be more Detroit Rock City podcasts. They're gonna be like, what is this Nick Guy's address? I salute you Kiss fans. Yes, come mug, bring Chongo and come mug our good friend Nick here for his blasphemy. They're gonna be pulling off their Kiss belt buckles and getting ready. 

They're probably all like 80 years old at this point. Yeah, yeah. I never really got Kiss, man. I don't know, I had an uncle who was really into them. 

And I'm like a middle dude. I mean, I love like Sabbath and Deep Purple and stuff, but I don't know, Kiss, there's a really funny joke in this movie that not a lot of people would get where they're in the car. Yes, that's it. They're talking about how lame Disco is. And then they're like, dude, Kiss will never make a Disco song. And they did like the year after this movie is set. 

Right, which is pretty funny. But yeah, I never really got Kiss too. I was not into the face paint. I was not into most of their music, feels pretty cheesy, but it's hard to deny rock and roll all night. That's a pretty fun, catchy song, like been played to death for sure. But something you can enjoy. They do have some fun songs. I mean, I like the title song from the movie. And it's weird, they had this weird KISS a song to this time, they had this movie in 99. The next year I talked about the Dreamcast already, Jordan, they had their own Sega Dreamcast first person shooter, Kiss Psycho Circus. It was horrible. 

That's crazy. But they did have it. Hey, my boys, the replacements, they did a Kiss cover. What song did they cover, Jordan? I don't know, it was on the Let It Be. 

I think it was a song. It feels like you're stalling. Answer this question. 

All right, all right, give it to me. We just watched the Mod Squad. What was Richard Jenkins' character's name in that movie? Was it Ralph Watershed, Bob Mothershed, Bob Waterford, or Robert Jenkins? Watershed? Wrong, Bob Mothershed. 

Oh, Mothershed, damn it. Oh yeah, it was Bob, yeah, because Giovanni Robisi's like, yeah, Bob! The way he says it. Right, I thought that that would be easy because of that. Oh well, that's okay. Okay, number two here. So while Chongo is on his way to confront Trip for bullying his brother, Trip tells the kid that he can have his wallet to which the kid responds, I was gonna take your wallet anyway, after Chongo and his friends crushed your rib cage like a blank. 

So what analogy does he use? A can of billy beer, a Donna Summers eight track, a Styrofoam cup, or a pack of luckies? He says pack of luckies, doesn't he? 

Yeah, he does. Nice. I knew that would be an easy one, but I don't know why, I just love that detail. 

Awesome. All right, number three, Jordan. I've heard some people recently say that Snow Falling on Cedars may be the best film of 1999. I don't know, I never saw it. It looked kinda boring to me. I am gonna watch it this year, but. Yeah, never seen it. 

I don't know if that's revisionist history or what, I don't know, I guess I'll find out when I watch it. Who directed this film in which Jenkins plays sheriff Art Moran? Was it A, Allen Ball? B, Scott Hicks? C, Ang Lee? Or D, Claire Denis? Was it Ang Lee? No, it was Scott Hicks. Unfortunately, that means Jordan, rather shockingly you've lost again at Trip. 

Rather shockingly. Who is Scott Hicks? What the hell has he done? So he was an Australian guy. He actually did a few things. He did that Heart of Atlantis movie. He did like a lot of schmaltzy, like romantic type movies after this. He did a Nicholas Sparks movie. He did The Boys Are Back with Clive Owen, which is all right. I watched that one with my wife at one point. We went through a lot of Clive Owen movies. 

So he's done a lot of stuff. It's No Boys Are Back in Town. The music video directed by Adam Rifkin for Everclear. Apparently, yeah, he directed the music video too. And then you have our four leads from the movie in the music video as well. 

With the Elvis character from the school, he plays one of the security guards at the concert. And then you have the Everclear band. It goes back and forth between the 70s and the 90s. So it goes from Everclear dressed up like a bunch of 70s guys with weird wigs on. And then it jumps to them in the 90s with suits on and they're playing in front of a concert and stuff. But I just thought it was funny that Rifkin and a lot of the cast went and made that music video. Yeah, you're getting a full dose of 1999 history there, listeners. I will say that. 

There you go. Very disappointingly, the song The Boys Are Back in Town, I don't remember it being in the movie The Boys Are Back. Maybe that's why I didn't think it was the best movie I had seen. 

And I only really learned about that music video in all those details because of that Angel Fire website. So that's the kind of personalized detailed information you get in 99, not in our hellscape Instagram filtered world of 2024. Ugh, gross, 2024, yuck. 1999 forever. 

Forever. You know what, it's time for two more 1999 movies, Jordan. No one we decided we were gonna cover 1999 all year. 

A lot of people were probably like, oh man, there's so many huge movies that everyone talks about that these guys will be talking about. Nope. My pick after this one is one of the biggest ones. But nope, you're right. From Detroit Rock City and the Mod Squad to these two movies I'm about to say. So I'll say the punishment movie first. The Mod Squad starred Giovanna Robisi, not his only 1999 movie. He did another critically panned movie that year, Jordan. You know, Mod Squad only got a 3% on Rotten Tomatoes, which I don't put a ton of stock in Rotten Tomatoes. 

29% is pretty bad. And that's what the other sister got, directed by Gary Marshall, starring Robisi and Juliette Lewis. That will be the punishment film. 

All right. It should be a good time. I did not know about this film at all until doing my research for this episode. 

So yeah, that'll be interesting. I remember seeing the trailer for it and thinking, this feels like it's in bad taste. I don't know. I don't even know what it's about. What is it about? 

It's about the other sister. She's not quite riding the head, Jordan. Neither is Giovanna Robisi's character. He's not quite riding the head either. But these two crazy kids are gonna find love together. 

All right. To the tuna, 29% on Rotten Tomatoes. Is this his attempt at Oscar nomination? He's gonna play a mildly mentally challenged person? Right. I think unfortunately he went the route they say you shouldn't go in Tropic Thunder. Full retard. 

And he didn't win a reward there. Yeah, I just watched, speaking of, that's strange that that comes up because I just watched Tropic Thunder for the first time. You might've seen my Letterbox review of Two Stars, but I was not into it. I was, what the hell? I was not into it, man. 

Get out of here. Somehow I love this dumb humor in Detroit Rock City from 99, but couldn't get into the mid 2000s humor of Tropic Thunder. I just did not laugh at all watching this. 

What? You didn't laugh at all? No. In Tropic Thunder? 

No, I mean, I might've smiled or smirked a little bit here and there, but it mostly didn't land for me. I don't know, man. Not even on what do you mean, you people? 

Not even on that? I don't know. It's just a weird time of comedy. And I just remember not being into it at the time when it came out. I didn't fully watch it. I watched like the first 15 minutes at a friend's house and I was just like, oh, I'm not into this. And I don't know if it just calls back to that time in my life or what, but I don't know. 

It's just like all the humor felt like really dated and just like not funny. All right, listeners, let's move on from this traumatic conversation as quickly as possible to our main film for the next episode, which may cause some trauma. This is directed by Joel Schumacher. I don't think we've said his name yet on film shakes somehow. Jordan, you want some Nick Cage, buddy? 

You want some Nick Cage? He did a couple of movies in 1999. One of them is Eight Millimeter, directed by Joel Schumacher, written by Andrew Kevin Walker. Gross Thomas, the 100 Mill at the box office, which is more than double his budget, decent little hit there, but some dark, dark content involved. 

Yeah, this is pretty dark. You got Joaquin Phoenix. You got James Gandolfini during the same year that he premiered as Tony Soprano. 

Peter Stormair. Jordan, I've never watched this. I've always wanted to watch it and just was looking for an excuse. Let's cover this movie, Jordan. It's 1999. 

Let's do it. All right, I have seen this before. It's been a long, long time, but you're right, it is a dark-ass movie, so you might regret your choice here. I mean, unless you're into snuff films or something, but yeah. Yeah, okay, the other sister in Eight Millimeter did not see that coming. 

That was my intention. I figured if Eight Millimeter is really that dark, what's the dumbest thing we could pair that with? And it was the other sister, so there we go. The other sister in Eight Millimeter, coming next time on Film Shake. Hope you can't wait. All right, I can't wait, I don't know. Ha ha ha ha. All right, yeah, I'm excited. 

Ha ha ha ha. Wow, okay, well, thank you guys for listening. We appreciate everybody who listens and supports the show, so if you do want to support us on our Patreon, we have a Patreon for bonus content, or you can sign up for at least $3 a month, get bonus content. Nick's gonna be doing some special episodes for our $5 subscribers, personalizing their episodes, anything you want us to talk about, or want Nick to talk about at least, and you can get it there on our Patreon, so go to patreon.com slash filmshake. You can also reach out to us by email at filmshakepodcast at gmail.com. And thanks again for listening. We appreciate all you guys. We'll catch you next time for more film shaker. Take it easy. The cool just got back today. And while that boy's had been away, but having changed that much to say. 

Yeah, but then I still think all their cats are great. They would ask me if you were around, how you was and where you could be found. I told them you were living from downtown. Driving all those old men crazy. The boys are back in town, the boys are back in town. 

The boys are back in town, the boys are back in town. Hands, people were robbed, they muttered, fold hands. Rats slid on one another, fold hands. Sometimes kids get murdered, fold hands. So before we go any further, we'll warm my hands. Man, I've never heard a girl go to the last before.